Apple's first mixed-reality headset, the Vision Pro, arrives tomorrow. Apple has a knack for revitalizing and legitimizing a product category—something that the face computer market really needs right now. But there are some hang-ups that could limit its initial success: the Vision Pro's exorbitant $3,499 price tag, the tethered battery pack, and the mere handful of apps available on the device at launch. These issues point to this headset being more of a development kit than a fully realized product for now. It's a beautiful machine, but its true potential may not be realized for some time.
This week on Gadget Lab, WIRED reviews editor Julian Chokkattu joins us to chat about the Apple Vision Pro and whether it's going to be the device that finally kicks off the face computer revolution. We also talk about the ways Apple is trying to make the headset disappear as part of the experience, both in the virtual space and in the physical realm.
Read Julian’s hands-on experience with the Apple Vision Pro. Read Lauren’s story about the Apple Vision Pro’s battery pack. Read Boone Ashworth on the current situation with apps and developers.
Julian recommends Thumbtack, a platform to connect homeowners with service vendors. Lauren recommends butter lettuce. Mike recommends the Scottish police show Shetland.
Julian Chokkattu can be found on social media @JulianChokkattu. Lauren Goode is @LaurenGoode. Michael Calore is @snackfight. Bling the main hotline at @GadgetLab. The show is produced by Boone Ashworth (@booneashworth). Our theme music is by Solar Keys.
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Note: This is an automated transcript, which may contain errors.
Michael Calore: Lauren.
Lauren Goode: Mike.
Michael Calore: Should I buy a face computer?
Lauren Goode: Which one?
Michael Calore: Any face computer.
Lauren Goode: I thought we were talking about a very specific one this week.
Michael Calore: Well, we are, but I'm not sure I can afford it, so I'm trying to figure out if it's worth the money. Do I need a face computer?
Lauren Goode: Is there a new, very expensive face computer out?
Michael Calore: There is, yes.
Lauren Goode: I don't know if you need one. What do you think that you would use it for?
Michael Calore: I would say that I would probably do Zooms, hang out on Slack, and type in Google Docs.
Lauren Goode: Wow. The future is very sexy. I don't know. I think we should probably bring in another person to ask them for their advice.
Michael Calore: OK. I do expect an answer by the end of the show.
Lauren Goode: OK.
[Gadget Lab intro theme music plays]
Michael Calore: Hi, everyone. Welcome to Gadget Lab. I am Michael Calore, I'm the director of consumer tech and culture at WIRED.
Lauren Goode: Still loving that new title.
Michael Calore: It's such a mouthful.
Lauren Goode: I love that journey for you. And I'm Lauren Goode, I'm a senior writer at WIRED.
Michael Calore: We are also joined this week by WIRED senior reviews editor Julian Chokkattu. Julian, welcome back.
Julian Chokkattu: Thank you for having me. Hello.
Lauren Goode: Julian's here.
Michael Calore: Last time you were on the show, we were in a hotel room.
Julian Chokkattu: That is true.
Lauren Goode: Say more.
Julian Chokkattu: We were cramped onto some beds and some couches.
Michael Calore: At CES. The CES show. Go back a few weeks and you can listen to it. But Julian, I can't help but notice that you are joining us this week on a regular video call on your computer, and you are not wearing a big VR headset.
Julian Chokkattu: That is true. Very astute observation.
Michael Calore: All right, well on this week's show, we are going to be talking about the Apple Vision Pro, Apple's first mixed-reality device, which will be out tomorrow, February 2. Groundhog Day. If you were able to preorder one last week, or if you're currently listening to the show while sitting on the sidewalk in front of an Apple Store, and you've got a cool $3,500 burning a hole in your pocket—
Lauren Goode: Plus tax.
Michael Calore: … plus tax, plus prescription lenses, then you are just about ready to strap in. Apple is taking a big step into a small market, and experts have noted that the Vision Pro is a bit of a gamble for the company. We will talk more about the VR market and where Apple fits in during the second half of the show. But first, we have to talk about what it's actually like to use it.
So over the past couple of weeks, Lauren and Julian, you were both invited by Apple to try the headset on, and take it for a spin. Julian, let's start with you. What was your initial experience like?
Julian Chokkattu: It was good, I think, overall, in the sense that it felt like a very polished product. And for a VR headset, or I guess a mixed-reality headset, it was surprisingly something that I felt like I could see myself using in some very limited ways. I think what impressed me most was the eye tracking, which also probably creeped me out the most, but also the hand gestures that you can use to control the interface.
So with the Vision Pro, when you put it on, you can basically look somewhere on the screen, and that's how you trigger, or how you would then tap your two fingers to click on something. Very much like a mouse, but here there's no controller or anything like that, you're just using your hands and your eyes. So the way that you interact with everything, like scrolling a webpage, you're basically pinching and zooming, and moving your hand across all sorts of different directions in the space around you, and it actually worked fairly well. Again, this was a very limited 30-minute demo, so I don't know how it would react in low-light conditions, for example. But overall, I think that was sort of the standout, where it just felt very futuristic. Because I'm just using my eyes and my fingers to navigate an imaginary or virtual operating system.
Lauren Goode: Julian, would you buy one, yourself?
Julian Chokkattu: Not at $3,500. I think my wife would kill me.
Michael Calore: Lauren, what did you think of the eye tracking and the gesture, the pinching?
Lauren Goode: The eye tracking is pretty cool. It's this telltale feature because as you move your eyes around and you look at a thumbnail, like let's say you open the Apple TV app, which was something that was a part of my very tightly controlled demos. I've had two at this point. Wherever your eyes focus, that thumbnail just kind of pops up.
Or let's say that you want to bring up a menu, you sort of look to the left of the virtual environment in front of you, or if you wanted to swipe, page through something, you might look to the bottom of the application. And then a little scroll bar appears. I'm not describing this well, it's very hard to describe this product, talking about it in audio form. Old-fashioned podcasting. So your eye latches onto something, your gaze latches onto something, and then from there you use the finger swiping to actually do the thing you want to do.
The gesture control, while pretty precise, I found to be a little bit uncomfortable. Apple very specifically told me to put my left hand by my left thigh. I am right-hand dominant, and I guess the face computer will pick up on any gesturing or movement that you're going to do with your left hand. So the left hand goes on the side, the right hand, they said, “Rest your forearm on your thigh. Don't feel like you have to put your arm in the air,” which I'm guessing is because Apple has said they don't want people to be fatigued. Even when they've justified not making a touchscreen MacBook, they have said, “We don't think that, it would just fatigue your arm.”
Michael Calore: Right.
Lauren Goode: So you're supposed to rest your arm, I'm doing it now, on your right thigh. And then just pinch your fingers together. I couldn't comfortably do that. If anyone who's listening right now, just do this thing, where you sit back in a chair, could be a desk chair, could be your couch. Mike's doing it now, he's straightening up. And try to put your forearm, rest it on your thigh. If you have maybe a shorter torso, you might be able to do this. I can't do it. Can you do it?
Michael Calore: Yeah.
Lauren Goode: Are you resting comfortably? I'm hunched over.
Michael Calore: Yeah, you are.
Lauren Goode: I'm like—
Michael Calore: You look uncomfortable. You look like you're reaching.
Lauren Goode: It's very uncomfortable. So I have to do a thing where my arm is kind of in the air, floating in the air, to use the pinch control. It was fine for the half-hour demo that I did it. I could see it getting tiring over time. That said, to Julian's point, this is all very, very impressive technology. Out of the gate, it just feels extremely awkward.
We should also note that WIRED has not yet published a full review of these products. The first round of reviews were out this week. There are a select number of journalists who have spent, and YouTubers, who have spent hours with this thing. We haven't had that experience yet. So we can't really comment on it.
Michael Calore: You both got to try it back in June?
Lauren Goode: Yeah. Yes.
Michael Calore: And then you tried it—
Lauren Goode: Right, Julian? It was June, that we tried it? WW, DC.
Julian Chokkattu: Yeah, I think it was just you in June. And then my first experience was in January, where Lauren also got that second experience.
Lauren Goode: Yeah. And Julian tried it in New York City, where he was able to walk around and hang out in coffee shops like a nerd, with it on your face. Right, Julian?
Julian Chokkattu: No, no. I was still in a very, very, very controlled demo. Which, I wish, that would be fun. I wish I could have left that and just walked around New York with a Vision Pro—and not get mugged.
Michael Calore: Yeah, definitely not. OK, so I wear prescription glasses, and I know that there's special consideration inside the headset for people who wear prescription glasses, right?
Julian Chokkattu: Yeah.
Lauren Goode: No, sorry, you can't get a Vision Pro.
Michael Calore: I'm not allowed.
Julian Chokkattu: You're just boxed out.
Lauren Goode: No, Apple has thought of that. Julian, do you want to say more?
Julian Chokkattu: Yeah. I basically had to give Apple my prescription, and there's a similar function that'll work when you're just ordering off of Apple's website. You provide your prescription, and then they have a partnership with Zeiss, where they're making these little magnetic inserts, I think, that pop right into the Vision Pro headset. So once you place your order, I think for reading glasses, it's like 99, and then for a prescription, it's 150. And you just pop those into your Vision Pro, and that's sort of it, and it worked perfectly. I didn't have to keep my glasses on. I think it would've made it 10 times more uncomfortable if I had my glasses on, so it was kind of a pretty seamless approach.
Lauren Goode: How comfortable was it for you in general, to wear?
Julian Chokkattu: Yeah, I went in thinking it would be a little bit uncomfortable, because historically when I've used VR headsets before, I just never wanted to wear them for more than an hour. After 30 minutes, I didn't really think of the headset, in general. It wasn't too tight, it wasn't too uncomfortable. The worst thing for me was there was a bit of light bleeding in through the nose area, and maybe it's just my nose is big or something, I don't know. But they did say, and this was right after some journalists had already written about it, and experienced and mentioned, some uncomfortability. And the weight of the headset.
We did spend a decent amount of time, maybe five, 10 minutes adjusting the headset, so that it fell in the right place, so that it was balanced based on my cheekbones, and on my head. So I think it definitely takes a little bit of time to dial that in, but I also only tried one of the types of straps, and there is another strap that's included in the box so that you can hopefully get a better fit. But at the end of the day, it's a headset. It's not going to work for everyone's head perfectly, I think, and that's just kind of the nature of that type of product.
Michael Calore: What did you think, Lauren? How did it fit you?
Lauren Goode: Julian and I have very different heads.
Michael Calore: Yes. So Julian is 6'4"—you're 6'4"?
Julian Chokkattu: I am 6'4", yeah.
Michael Calore: And you have a rather large head. Lauren is significantly more petite, although not small. You're tall.
Lauren Goode: Yeah. I appreciate everything you're saying. Totally. You are correct.
Michael Calore: And your head is smaller than Julian's.
Lauren Goode: I have a narrow face.
Michael Calore: Yes.
Lauren Goode: And what's funny to me is that Julian and I do have different heads, and head sizes, and face shapes. I can't believe we're talking about this in the Gadget Lab podcast, but it's true. And we both had similar experiences.
Michael Calore: Really.
Lauren Goode: I also experienced the light bleed underneath the bottom rim of the Vision Pro, and also experienced after a half hour or so, some discomfort because of the weight of the headset kind of resting at my cheekbone area. And then afterwards, one of the Apple public relations representatives said, “Oh, how about this strap?” And then I tried the second set of straps, which the second one that has the top strap, just gives you a little bit of, the slightest bit of support or angling of the face computer, so it's not resting quite so heavily on your cheeks. And that felt a little bit better, but once again, I didn't get to try it for an extended period of time.
Michael Calore: OK.
Julian Chokkattu: Was the top strap annoying for you? Because that one goes directly over your head too, right?
Lauren Goode: Yeah, no, it wasn't. I mean, it's funny because I read Nilay Patel's review in The Verge, and one of the things, in addition to it being a multi-thousand-word, very thorough review, he makes a couple references to his hair. And, “Is this going to mess up my hair?” I don't care. I'm like, even on a good day, I'm like, “Oh, my hair's kind of a mess. Whatever.”
No, it didn't, the top strap didn't bother my head, nor did I care if it kind of ruffled my hair a little bit. So yeah, that wasn't a concern. It's a hefty device, and there's a lot of talk about how this is potentially just a first-generation device, and Apple is concurrently working on something that's smaller and lighter weight. And this isn't the end vision, this is the initial vision, no pun intended. But if we are just talking about this product as it is now, if we are telling our listeners and our friends whether or not they should spend $3,500 to $3,800 on this now, these are the factors you have to consider.
Michael Calore: Right. One other big factor, which is something I want to talk about before we take a break, is the apps that you saw in your demo. What were the apps? You mentioned watching something on Apple TV.
Lauren Goode: Yeah, we should give a shout-out to our producer, the excellent Boone Ashworth, who wrote a great story on WIRED.com this week about the apps that are and are not available on the Apple Vision Pro. The ones I saw were a lot of the native apps, Browsed Safari. "Browsed," quote, unquote. Like put in WIRED.com using the virtual keyboard, and checked out how that looked, and then—
Michael Calore: And uncomfortably pinched to zoom.
Lauren Goode: Read Boone's story. No, I actually didn't get the chance to do that, but Apple TV, yep. Saw some videos on Apple TV. Disney Plus, which was cool. The photos app.
Julian Chokkattu: Did you try the mindfulness app, I think it was? The sort of meditation demo?
Lauren Goode: I may have tried that one in June. Did you try that one?
Julian Chokkattu: Yeah. A lot of the experiences for me were also native, except for one or two of those interactive dinosaur videos, where there's dinosaurs that show up on the screen, and they actually see where you're standing in the room. There was one or two third-party apps, but the mindfulness app, which is the same that you can find on your Apple Watch for example, I thought was a pretty good showcase of how you can use something like that in a VR space. Because it feels much more meditative than using it on an Apple Watch, for example. It puts you in that headspace right there, it blocks out everything around you, puts some nice music on. And even if it was only a minute of meditation, it actually was quite nice.
Lauren Goode: Yeah, the positioning of this is interesting, because right now it's not clearly defined what this is really for. I mean, Apple has touted some of the productivity apps. The idea is that the workspace in front of you could theoretically be limitless. You just have all this space around you to put as many windows as you want or need, in order to work effectively. Sure. That's one positioning of it.
I think this really shines as an entertainment device. I think during my demos, that was the only time I ever felt any sense of real emotion or excitement, was looking at rich media or movie trailers. Just being sort of immersed in that world, that was pretty cool. What's interesting about that though, is that there are some pretty big media services that have declined to work with this. And that is, let's see, Netflix?
Michael Calore: Netflix.
Lauren Goode: Right?
Michael Calore: Yeah.
Lauren Goode: YouTube. Not optimized for this. Spotify, although, I mean when I think of listening to Spotify, it's like just put it on my Sonos and walk around the house. Why would I … I don't know.
Michael Calore: Maybe you can hang out with your AI DJ, in VR.
Lauren Goode: Maybe. Listen to your favorite pod in a face computer? I don't know. And maybe that'll change over time, because this would not be the first Apple product where we've seen the hardware launch before the app ecosystem is totally in place. But considering that, I think that this has a good chance as an entertainment device. Kind of surprised to see some of the entertainment makers not playing nice with Apple on this.
Michael Calore: We'll put a pin in that, because we're going to talk about apps in the second half. So let's take a break, and we'll come right back.
[Break]
Michael Calore: So with the Vision Pro, Apple is entering the VR market very late. Meta and Sony and Microsoft all have a years-long head start over Apple. And compared to what those headsets can do, and what sorts of experiences are available for them, the Vision Pro does not have a lot of apps. It's also way more expensive. So Lauren, I know you've thought a lot about this, so I want to ask you, is Apple taking a big risk here?
Lauren Goode: Yes. It's interesting that you said Apple's late to this, because they're either late or they're early. Which is to say that yes, other people have developed this before, virtual reality has been a pie-in-the-sky idea. This ideal of computing, for what, 30 years?
Michael Calore: Mm-hmm.
Lauren Goode: Maybe more? Actually more, because we're old. Good Lord. But Apple may be early to this idea of spatial computing and AR, and mixed reality, and pass-through technology. That means that you are not fully enveloped, even though you've got a thing on your face, and we've talked about some of the discomforting parts of that. There, actually, you do see the real world in addition to the virtual world.
Apple may also be early to this level of granular gesture controls, they may help build a new app ecosystem for immersive video, 3D video content for it. There's some comparisons being made to the first iPhone, the Apple Watch launching without a clear use case, and then it becoming clear that it was ideal for fitness. I think a little bit about the iPad, honestly, and not just because iPad apps are being converted into Vision Pro apps, with supposedly the checking of a box.
I think about the iPad because it's funny, in my Facebook memories the other day, on January 27th. This memory popped up of me sitting at my desk in a former newsroom, holding a 10-inch piece of cardboard to my face. It was the day that the iPad was announced, January 27th, 2010, and I didn't have an iPad. I mean, I wasn't granted an early access unit or anything, but I had a piece of cardboard at my desk that was approximately that size. And someone took a photo of me holding it up to the side of my face, pretending to make a phone call on it. And the joke was, "Are we really going to be making phone calls with these giant tablets?"
By the way, Apple was not first to tablets, either.
Michael Calore: Right.
Lauren Goode: Those had been attempted before, too. And what we learned pretty quickly, and which I eventually came around to, because I didn't really have an iPad for a while. And then eventually I was like, "Oh, I like the iPad a lot," is that it was a new type of interaction, and a new type of computing that we just couldn't really imagine because we had the phone before.
And so part of me wonders if there's a little bit of resistance to this because it is a new type of computing, and we're picturing all the things that we can currently do on our phone, or our Mac, or our iPad, or whatever, and saying, "Well, it doesn't exactly translate here," right?
Michael Calore: Right.
Lauren Goode: And I think that could be true. So I think it is true that we are perhaps not ready for this type of spatial computing, and that Apple has done a good job in making a convincing case for it. And it is also true that Apple is taking a huge, huge risk, because asking people to put a computer on, I think one of the most personal and sensitive parts of your body, is just like ... It's a big bet.
Michael Calore: Right. There is a cultural resistance to face computers, that we have seen.
Lauren Goode: Correct. And this is a very philosophical argument, but I think we're at a time in our lifetimes when you start to think about that third space. There have been articles written about this, right? You have work or school, and then you have home, and then what's that third space that people are supposed to go to, to establish a sense of community? Aside from flopping on your couch and watching Netflix mindlessly at night.
It used to be church, it used to be gyms, it used to be ... And then the pandemic really forced a reckoning around that. Where do we go to find community? And establishing community, I think it's really important for people, and especially when your head's down in a computer all day long. So for me, wanting to wrap my face in something else that isolates me or cuts me off from the world, isn't super appealing, unless it actually does effectively supplant some of the screen time I already have.
Michael Calore: Right. Like maybe you'll spend less time on your phone, if you spend more time hanging out with your friends in Vision Pro.
Lauren Goode: Maybe. And maybe that's a paradigm that we just can't envision yet, because we're so addicted to our phones.
Michael Calore: Right. Well, that's interesting.
Lauren Goode: What do you think?
Michael Calore: Everything you said just resonated with me, because I do feel like we don't really think about these things. They're handed to us, they're accepted into our lives, and then they just become part of us and we don't really think about them. And it's hard for us to stop and look at a face computer and say, "OK, how does this fit into my life?" If there's nothing compelling about it that is anything different than what we already know.
So I do think that, OK, I think this device is a development kit. It's way too expensive for normal people, so the people who are buying it are people who are really interested in what it's going to be, and that's consumers and developers. So developers are going to start thinking about it differently once they try it, they're going to start making apps that this is going to allow that other headsets do not allow, given the mixed-reality controls you talked about, and the ability for presence in physical space, and presence in virtual space. I think there's going to be all kinds of great apps. When those come, this device will just become another one of those things that is handed to us, and we are told how to use it. You know what I mean?
Lauren Goode: Hm. Like, we're told how to use it because the apps dictate that, or because the UI is so intuitive that we figure it out? Or because Apple is telling us how to use it?
Michael Calore: I think all three, but primarily the first one, the fact that the reason that you get an iPhone is because of the camera, and photo sharing on social media. Maybe. That's a reason why a lot of people want a phone. Or they want a phone because of social pressure, because that's where all their friends are hanging out. What if all your friends are hanging out in some VR world in five years? Then it's like, you have to get one of these headsets to get into the VR world, right?
Lauren Goode: Right. Yeah. Maybe 30 years ago we would've looked at gamers who sat there all night long with a little headset on, talking to their friends through a virtual game and said, "Wow, that's a lot of, that's a time suck." But it's actually an incredibly important social experience.
Michael Calore: It is. Julian, what do you think about whether or not developers are going to latch onto this?
Julian Chokkattu: Well, it's weird because, Vision Pro feels like something that Apple has been leading up to over the past couple of years. Just the way, starting with the introduction of the M1 and Apple Silicon, the whole idea was, "Now you can use iPhone apps on a Mac." And the way they've changed that design language over the past few years, where they're making it so that one app sort of adapts to your phone, and then with iPadOS, it now adapts to the shape of an iPad, and then that is now available on a Mac, and that adapts to a more desktop orientation.
But it feels like all of this was meant for Vision OS, where you're now able to resize your apps, and it can take the form of an iPhone app, it can take the form of an iPad app, or a Mac app in a desktop environment. And so it feels like Apple has subtly maybe been pushing this idea, and developers have been either taking advantage of that and building for it. So I do think, from the developer side, there's going to be heavy interest. Not only because they're partially already there, and maybe it is as simple as checking off a box, because of all of this work.
But also, in general, over the past two years, I've seen an insane amount of interest in getting face computers through AR glasses, and even at CES, I tried a demo version. Mike saw me, sitting there. And so did a lot of people at CES, just watched me in the media room, using this thing called the NEMO Planet, which is a little tiny computer that I plugged into some AR glasses, and I was typing away in a Chromium desktop browser with, no one could see what I was staring at, but I was looking at a couple of different screens. And there's so many companies now that are doing this type of thing, TCL, Xreal. There's just so many companies doing this that, I think everyone is trying to beat everyone else to the punch, and this is sort of the ideal form of what maybe Vision Pro is in the future, from a computing standpoint, in terms of using it for work.
But I think Apple is more ready, perhaps, for the entertainment aspect of it because that is also in some ways easier. You just slap some fun content on, and it looks great, great. But the computing aspect is a little trickier, because now I have to carry a keyboard or a mouse, and how do you interact with it? But I think they've done some really good and interesting things to make it work in the Vision Pro, from what we've seen so far. But I don't know if I'm going to want to wear a Vision Pro in a coffee shop. That's just kind of strange.
Lauren Goode: Yeah. The eyesight thing is interesting, because I wasn't able to see what my eyes look like, in eyesight. And Julian, I don't think you were in your demo either, right?
Julian Chokkattu: No.
Lauren Goode: But the reviewers who got to take it home, and spend time with it, they've been sharing photos this week of what their eyesight looks like. Which is a virtual rendering of what your eyes would look like, if let's say you're sitting on the couch wearing the Apple Vision Pro and your spouse comes in and looks at you, the idea is they'd be able to see your eyes, but it's not your real eyes, it's a visual rendering of your eyes. And they look funny.
Michael Calore: Yes, it does look very funny. But I think that eyesight ties into what Julian has been getting at, which is that the Vision Pro, as it exists now, is not the thing. It's the thing that's going to get us to the thing, in five or 10 years, it's going to be a headset that is very comfortable to wear, that is not crazy expensive, that disappears more. And with this, you can see Apple trying to make it disappear, right? Eyesight is an attempt to make the technology disappear, and make it look as though you're just wearing a set of ski goggles. You're not wearing a $4,000 computer on your head.
Also, with the FaceTime avatars. We've seen screenshots of people doing FaceTime, and it's a digital representation of you, wearing no headset. But your head, floating in space, talking to your friend's head, also not wearing a headset, floating in space. So they've removed the headset, so that you can talk to each other face to face, with these creepy 3D avatars.
Lauren Goode: Yes.
Michael Calore: Right?
Lauren Goode: You just made me think of what the title of this episode should be.
Michael Calore: What is it?
Lauren Goode: Apple's Uncanny Valley Pro.
Michael Calore: I like it. Well there's also your favorite topic, the battery pack, right?
Lauren Goode: Oh yeah, Julian, let's go to Julian first. Tell us about this battery pack.
Michael Calore: The point is that Apple is making it very hard for you to notice the battery pack, in its marketing around the thing. They're just not showing it in photos. They're not showing it in the demo videos. But yeah, it's an actual, real battery pack.
Julian Chokkattu: Yeah, it's, "Put it in your pocket when you get up and walk around." Well, what if your pants don't have pockets? I don't know. There's a lot of weird parts of the battery. Like, it makes sense for where the technology is right now, and obviously I don't think there was just any way around it, because I would much rather have a battery in my pocket than strapped to the back of my head, and potentially acting as a head warmer.
But it's just also so unlike Apple, it felt, to make such a sacrifice in that way. It felt like the type of thing that Samsung would come out with a headset, and they'd have a battery pack hanging off the thing. And then in five years, Apple would come out with a headset that didn't have that. And that's now, everyone is like, "Wow, look what Apple did."
And that's also kind of what I feel about Vision Pro when compared to some of these other existing headsets. It's like, it does seem like Apple might be late to the game, but also, Apple has that very annoying ability to just make a product suddenly popular and the thing that everyone wants. It's very annoying, but I don't think ... A lot of people that are going to buy it and there's going to be a lot of interest in it because it's just Apple, doing it. And they're going to say, "Yeah, I want that, that looks cool. Well, I have to get it. It's just the new Apple thing." Right?
Michael Calore: Yep.
Lauren Goode: I mean, we should address the elephant in the room, though. The big blue elephant in the room, which is the Meta Quest. I mean the Meta Quest, also the Meta Quest Pro, which is their more advanced model, also doesn't have an external battery pack. It's on your head. It's in the face computer. And that's actually been a pretty popular device in the VR, AR market. By some estimates, they've sold more than 20 million units of the Meta Quest since it launched. The first unit was, I think just full VR, then they started to do pass-through video as well, so that you can see some of the real world around you when you're using it. That's the one I've used the most. I've used the Meta Quest 2 a fair amount, and it's pretty good. They now have the Meta Quest 3, the Pro, which is more expensive.
Michael Calore: And the 3 has better pass-through video, right?
Lauren Goode: That's correct, yeah. It also has hand controllers.
Michael Calore: Oh, OK.
Lauren Goode: So they're not doing gesture control. I'm sure they're working on it.
Michael Calore: Amateurs.
Lauren Goode: I mean, their whole R&D lab that's dedicated to this. So yeah, Apple could popularize this on another level. The technologies, in some ways, much more advanced. But they wouldn't be the first manufacturer to sell millions of units of this type of computing device.
Michael Calore: That's right.
Julian Chokkattu: I do want to also touch on, back when you were talking about the companies sort of pushing this, and us accepting it. One thing I was thinking about was, with eyesight, I understand their intent of when someone looks at you when you're wearing the headset, "Now you can see their eyes, and how they're emoting." But at the same time, why couldn't we just make it so that when someone looked at you, they just saw you wearing the headset, and you could just take it off if they wanted to ask you a question, and you wanted to talk to them? Why go so far as to make it, all these production marketing materials that they have, of a person wearing the Vision Pro, talking to someone next to them on the couch who doesn't have one on?
That was the part that I think that just irked me the most, because it's this sort of idea that, "You could just leave it on, and we've handled everything else for you," but you could have also just not had that feature, and it would've been one step less creepy. And it just seemed very unnecessary, all this work to get that sort of effect. But yeah, that was just a little odd to me.
Michael Calore: That's a very good point. I mean, it's very Apple, to control the experience as much as possible. But nothing new under the sun. So I guess we'll wait and see, on Apple Vision Pro?
Lauren Goode: Watch this space.
Michael Calore: Watch this space, with your creepy eyes. This has been a great conversation, but we still have to take care of recommendations, so please stick around. We'll be right back.
[Break]
Michael Calore: OK, Julian, as our guest, you get to go first. What is your recommendation?
Julian Chokkattu: I am recommending an app called Thumbtack, and I have been using this app for the past few months, now that I am ... And this is, again, very weird to say. A homeowner. I have a lot of really random tasks that I need help with. Things like changing electrical stuff, adding outlets. I don't want to really touch wires and electrical components in a home, so I found out that there's this app that you could use to look for pros in your area, like handymen or electricians, or whoever. And you just kind of look for whatever you want, and there's a bunch of recommendations that usually come up, a lot of reviews from people in the area, and you can sometimes see pricing details, or just talk to the person and get a quote. It's just a very, very nice way of lowering that sort of overwhelming barrier to like, "Oh crap, something's wrong in my house. I need to fix it, but I don't want to mess things up and do it myself."
I try to do a bit of that, but at a certain point, I'm not going to replace an outlet. I just don't really feel comfortable doing that. Maybe one day, but this is a really great app that's been kind of helpful for me in the past couple of months, and it's very, very slick. And I just was surprised, that it was such a common thing that had lots of people on it too. So it's not like just one handyman in your area. It's a lot. I'm also in New York, so maybe that's a part of it, but.
Lauren Goode: How does it compare to TaskRabbit?
Julian Chokkattu: I've actually never used TaskRabbit, so I'm sure there's some cross-pollination with some types of tasks being available on TaskRabbit, but this is definitely the place to go for more home-focused stuff, where I assume TaskRabbit has random jobs, like rewrite my résumé, or whatever. Or something like that.
Michael Calore: And is this a web platform, or is it like an iOS app, or an Android app?
Julian Chokkattu: Yeah, you can use it on the website. I think, I predominantly use it on the Android app, but there's an iPhone app. Very easy to use, just search. I had to move a washer-dryer the other day, and I searched for washer-dryer. And people came up that knew how to touch a washer-dryer, I guess, or operate one. So they helped out. It was great.
Lauren Goode: Is it available as a Vision Pro app? That's what I want to know. Can you sit there on your couch, watching Avatar, while—
Julian Chokkattu: I'll have to get back to you on that.
Michael Calore: Through Safari. Yes. And Julian, you're not doing anything to bolster your reputation as somebody who writes about technology for a living. I'm just saying.
Julian Chokkattu: You know what? Now that you say that, Vision Pro-ing, and having pass-through video or I can get guidance on how to switch out some plugs or whatever. That seems like the kind of useful thing that I could use it for.
Michael Calore: There you go. Thumbtack killer, right there. All right, that's a good recommendation. Thank you, and congratulations on now having a giant home that you have to hire people to take care of for you.
Lauren Goode: Congrats.
Julian Chokkattu: Thank you.
Michael Calore: Lauren, what is your recommendation?
Lauren Goode: Visit Julian's house. My recommendation, shout out to our old buddy Gilad, who once made a very simplistic food recommendation, and it just really resonated. Butter lettuce.
Michael Calore: Butter lettuce.
Lauren Goode: Butter lettuce.
Michael Calore: Is this lettuce with butter on it?
Lauren Goode: No. It is a type of leaf lettuce. Those of you who work at WIRED, who are listening to this podcast, all 20 of you. Will know that I have a significant fear of arugula. It's a death trap. What is that lettuce? Is it a lettuce?
Michael Calore: It's the devil's lettuce.
Lauren Goode: It's the devil's lettuce. Now, I'm going to get all kinds of hate mail from people who love arugula. Chefs, normies, whatever. I understand it's one of the more nutritious leaves out there, it's really more like a vine or something. Scrap. A weed.
Michael Calore: OK, let's stop disparaging arugula.
Lauren Goode: But butter lettuce. It's so light, it's mild, it's tender. It's perfect for salads or sandwiches. It's perfect as a garnish. It's got a great color. You can mince it. I've been making some delightful winter salads lately, with butter lettuce and radicchio and shallots, and maybe a little bit of Gorgonzola cheese, if you're not a vegan. I'm looking at you, Mike. There's ... I have to mention it every episode.
Michael Calore: No comment.
Lauren Goode: You know what? You can use some vegan Parmesan cheese.
Michael Calore: Oh, thank you. I appreciate that.
Lauren Goode: It’s just as nutty and delightful. Like this show. [Lauren starts laughing.] I have the giggles. Butter lettuce. That's it.
Michael Calore: OK.
Julian Chokkattu: Wait, so this looks tiny, compared to normal lettuce.
Michael Calore: It's like—
Lauren Goode: No, it comes in this, it's this giant head with the root attached.
Michael Calore: Yeah, it's like the size of maybe a grapefruit?
Lauren Goode [Still giggling]: A little bigger. It's like the size of the head you need to wear the Apple Vision Pro. It's like a baby's head.
Michael Calore: Nice. Yeah.
Lauren Goode: Julian, try it, and let me know what you think. I'm very curious to hear your take.
Julian Chokkattu: I'll look for it. I also didn't know your stance on arugula, which was just very enlightening.
Lauren Goode: If you were here in the San Francisco office, you would see that whenever we get food that has arugula in it, I'm like, I put out the warning on Slack.
Michael Calore: Yep.
Julian Chokkattu: Is it the taste, or?
Lauren Goode: It's a little bitter, but no, it's mostly the texture. It's this ... To me, we can go on forever. No matter how much you chew it, masticate it, which sounds dirty, but it's not. It just feels stringy, and like you're going to choke on it.
Michael Calore: Her hatred for arugula is the only thing that she talks about with more frequency than my dietary restrictions. I'm just saying.
Lauren Goode: OK. Butter lettuce is where it's at. Mike, I would like to hear your recommendation now.
Michael Calore: OK. I'm going to recommend a television show.
Lauren Goode: OK.
Michael Calore: It's an ITV show, which is the British Network, and you can watch it on Brit Box, which is how I watched it. It's called Shetland. And it's named after—
Lauren Goode: Is that a pony?
Michael Calore: No, there's ... Yes. Shetland, of the ponies. It's a chain of islands in far northern Scotland. It's almost to Norway. It's way up there, so it's remote. And the show, it's a cop show. It's one of those British detective inspector, and detective constable, chief inspector, blah, blah, blah, shows. And it's very good. I never really got into the British inspector shows before. I think Midsummer Murders was the only one that I had previously watched. But Shetland is remarkably well written. It's also very well acted. It does not fall into the tropes and the stereotypes that are very common, of these shows. It's also just delightful to watch a cop show where there's no guns. I mean, yes, there is murder. But the cops aren't running around pointing guns at people. It's also—
Lauren Goode: It's the old-fashioned way. They put a bunch of ether in a cloth, and then put it against people's faces?
Michael Calore: No, they walk up to them and they say, "You're under arrest."
Lauren Goode: Oh, OK.
Michael Calore: "You need to come with me." And the person goes, "OK," and they get in the back of the car.
Lauren Goode: They don't have consumption, and they're walking by the sea, and experiencing the vapors?
Michael Calore: There is a lot of walking by the sea.
Lauren Goode: There is. OK.
Julian Chokkattu: I looked in the trailer, and I saw the sea a lot.
Michael Calore: Yes. The scenery is gorgeous.
Lauren Goode: Oh, OK.
Michael Calore: Because the whole show is shot in the rural parts of Shetland, as well as in the cute little town that they have there. Lerwick. I'm going to get assassinated for pronouncing it incorrectly, but it's one of the things that makes the show enjoyable. And I will say, I have watched, there are eight seasons, I've watched seven of them. Not one goddamn pony.
Lauren Goode: Really?
Michael Calore: No ponies.
Lauren Goode: Gosh, what a disappointment.
Michael Calore: A lot of scotch. A lot of whiskey. A lot of kilts. A lot of left-hand-side driving.
Lauren Goode: How are the accents?
Michael Calore: Brilliant.
Lauren Goode: Love it.
Michael Calore: Absolutely amazing. My favorite thing about the accents is that Scottish people don't say little, they just say wee.
Lauren Goode: Oh, OK.
Michael Calore: A wee chat.
Lauren Goode: I thought you were going to say little.
Michael Calore: No, it's wee.
Lauren Goode: Wee.
Michael Calore: A wee chat. Your wee kilt. Who's your wee sister? It's great. Anyway, Shetland. Yeah. Stream it on Brit Box, which is one of the better deals, if you like British programming.
Lauren Goode: Yeah. I think this is the second or third time you've recommended Brit Box, and I'm sufficiently intrigued.
Michael Calore: Yes, you should be. It's very good.
Lauren Goode: Excellent recommendation. Thank you for that.
Michael Calore: Thank you. All right, and with that, our show is over. Thank you both for being here and talking about face computing and Apple's place in that environment.
Lauren Goode: Yeah. Thanks to Julian for joining us, that was really fun.
Julian Chokkattu: Yeah, and thank you for having me.
Michael Calore: Of course. And thank you all for listening. If you have feedback, you can endorse all of us on LinkedIn, just check the show notes. Our producer is Boone Ashworth, and we will be back with a new show next week. Until then, goodbye.
[Gadget Lab outro theme music plays]
Lauren Goode: Is there LinkedIn, on the Apple Vision Pro?
[Mike laughs]
Lauren Goode: I endorse you for eyesight.
[Everybody laughs]
